The North Wales Times

FRIDAY, JANUARY 29TH. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. Davitt asked whether the Foreign Office had had its attention drawn to the need of some other currency than,that of gin in the delta of the Niger, and whether missionaries and others were now compelled, by the character of this intoxicating currency, to promote the demoralisation of the people which resulted from the use of that medium of ex- change. Mr. Curzon said it was not correct to speak of gin as the currency, still less as the sole currency of the Nigger. It was one of several articles that "ware taken in barter by the natives., So far from there being any compul- sion or willingness to promote the demoralisa- tion of the people, the tax upon gin had lately been doubled, while it was heavily taxed in the proportions of the delta administered by the Niger Company, and was altogether pro- hibited in their inland territories. Mr. Ritchie, replying to Mr. T. G. Bowlgs, said he was aware of the views of the Merchant Service Guild and other bodies against the enforcement of the new rules relating to the prevention of collisions at sea, but he was not prepared to depart in any way from the posi- tion taken up by the Government. Answering Mr. P. Stanhope, Mr. A. i- Balfour said the financial scheme of the Irnper ial Ottoman Bank for raising a new Turkish loan, and the proposed guarantee in connection with the loan by the European Powers, had not come before the Government in an official shape. If it should do so, it would be consider- ed by them in conjunction with the other Powers. Sir G. Baden-Pewell asked what steps were being taken to enable the colonies and depen- dencies to cake an official park in the celebra- tion of the sixtieth year of the Queen's reign. Mr. Chamberlain said that, with the approval of the Queen, he had invited the Premiers of all self-governing colonies to come to this country, as the guests of the country, to take part in the celebration It was proposed that detachments representing the military forces of the colonies should also come, and an endeavour would be made to secure represen- tatives of the Imperial forces from the Crown Colonies. The debate was resumed on Mr. Maclean's amendment to the proposal to reappoint the South African Committee, to the effect that, in view of the peaceful settlement of affairs in the Chartered Company's territories, the punish- ment of all persons connected with the raid into the Transvaal, and the inexpediency of re- opening questions which had been disposed of, it was unnecessary to reappoint a Committee Mr. Chamberlain, replying to the speeches of the mover and seconder of the amendment, said his policy had always been GO do every- thing in his power to allay the feelings of race animosity in South Africa and to promote those good relations between the Dutch and the English without which the peace and prosperity of the country were absolutely impossible. The situation had not been improved by the recent legislation of the Transvaal Govern- ment. In his opiniospsome of theprovisions of that legislation were undoubtedly contrary to the London convention, and if that legislation was enforced undoubtedly a situation would be created which would require all our prudence, all our impartiality, and all our patience. With regard to the reforms asked for on behalf of the Outlanders, President Kruger had ovei and over again promised to give favourable consideration to the friendly representations which might be made by the British Govern- ment and to the respectful requests of the majority of the population of the Transvaal. Those friendly representations and those re- spectful requests had not been wanting, but up to the present time, the response of President Kruger and, the Transvaal Government had been, to say the least of it, inadequate. After describing the difficult and delicate task the Committee would have to discharge, Mr. Cham- berlain said the Government could not, without failing in honour, retire from their promise to appoint a Committee. After a brief speech by Sir William Harcourt, Mr. Maclean withdrew his amendment, and the Committee was then appointed. The rule as to the conduct of supply which was passed last session was again adopted, and the House went into Committee on the Army Supplementary Estimates. The only vote put was orIJ for £ 252,000 for capitation grants and miscellaneous charges for the volunteer forces. Mr. Knox moved the reduction of the vote by 920,000, which, he said, was approximately Ireland's contribution. The amendment was rejected by 127 votes to 23, and the vote was then agreed to. Mr. Brodrick, in moving a resolution with regard to the Military Works Bill, subsequen- tly explained the programme of national de- fence which the Government had drawn up. Amongst other things, it was proposed to pur- chase ground for manoeuvres on Salisbury Plain, to expend £ 500,000 on rifle ranges for volunteers, to rebuild many of the barracks, to erect forts at ports and coaling stations, and to fortify Bereliaven, Lough Swilly, the Scilly Island, and Falmouth for the purpose of pro- tecting our trade with America. The resolution was agreed to.

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 1ST. HOUSE OF LORDS. The Companies Bill and the Women's Fran- chise Bill were each read a first time. Lord ONSLOW, in answering questions from Lord Kinnaird, made a statement upon Indian famine relief. Acting on previous experience, the Indian Government would not sell or store grain so long as private traders were able to satisfy the necessities of the people. The Government recognised the duty to intervene in exceptional cases: but they believed that, these cases apart, the requirements of the situation could be met by the action of private traders. On no former occasion had the Government been in such a favourable position to deal with distress, owing to the wise foresight of those who laid down the Famine Code. Lord WENLOCK (a former Governor of r Madras) remarked that previous experience showed that any interference with private trhde was likely to do more harm than good. MONDAY, FEBRUARY 1ST. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. CHAPLIN, in reply to Mr. Drage, said he had carefully considered the report of the Departmental Committee on Poor-law schools, and had decided to make certain changes. Those changes he intended to carry out by means of an order of the Local Government Board, instead of an Act of Parliament. It was proposed to create a central body for Lon- t don, which would be responsible for the charge of certain classes of children; for example, those suffering from ophthalmia and skin disea- ses, those requiring special treatment during convalescence, those whose intellects were de- fective and who were physically weak, and those who were at present remanded to work houses by justices before being sent to indus- trial schools. Provision of a special character would be made, and it could be made by one authority acting for the whole ot London at less cost than would be entailed by each district making separate provision. Mr. BRODRICK stated, in answer to Mr. t;ibk, that the cause of the disaster to the troopship Warren Hastings was not yet known. Mr. LONG, in reply to Dr. Farquharson, said I it would be necessary for the whole subject of dog muzzling to be further considered in the light of the report of the Committee, which had been sitting for some time past fco inquire into the working of the laws relating to dogs. He understood that the Committee proposed that a petermined effort should be made to rid the country of rabies. He thought the owners of dogs, and the public generally, would support any well-considered scheme which promised to secure the complete extermination of rabies in this island, a result never likely to be secured under the existing system. Mr. G. BALFOUR, in reply to Mr. J. O'Con- nor, announced that the Government had no intention of introducing a bill for the local government of Ireland this session. Mr. CHAMBERLAIN, answering Mr. Hogan, said that in the event of the Premiers of the self-governing colonies accepting the invitation to participate in the celebration of the sixtieth year of Her Majesty's reign, the question of holding an Imperial Conference for the discus- sion of matters of common colonial concern would be taken into consideration. Mr. A. J. BALFOUR, answering Mr. M'Hngh, said he did not think it was advisable to add anything to what he said in the debate the other night on the subject of the establishment of a Catholic Universityfin Ireland. The House then went into Committee on the resolution dealing with a proposed grant in aid to fcheiVolur tary schools. Mr. BALFOUR said the Government pro posed to confine their bill to three questions- relieving the Voluntary schools from the pres- sure of rates; dealing with the 17s. 6d. limit; and the distribution of the aid grant. They proposed to put Voluntary schools by a simple enactment into the position occupied by scien- tific and learned institutions, and say that they should not be liable for rates at all. The second provision of the bill was that which relieved elementary day schools from the 17s. 6d. limit. That provision, and that provision alone, ex- tended beyond the province of the Voluntary schools, and included within its scope Board schools also. With regard to the aid grant, and its mode of distribution, the grant would be 5s. per scholar, instead of 4s., as provided in the bill of last year: and its distribution would be in the hands of the Education Department. To ask that Department, however, to do that un- aided would be to ask it to do too much; and they, therefore, proposed to encoarage the f8r- mation of associations of Voluntary schools, which should have the right to advise the De- partment how the money could best be expen- ded. His hopes for the beneficial working of the bill largely depended on the manner in which those interested in Voluntary schools used the power of associaiion given them in the measure. Mr. ACLAND, who followed, said there was nothing in Mr. Balfour's speech that appeared to give any assurance that a good deal of this money would not be wasted by simply going to make good a reduction of subscriptions. The Government had had a great opportunity. They had a great surplus last year, and they would have a great surplus this year. They had an immense majority in the House and on many points, they had to face a not unreasonable Opposition. With all those advantages, and without any limit of time to hold them back, it was a matter of profound regret that they had tabled such a measure, and had selected such a method of putting the measure before the House. Mr. COURTNEY said the Government's proposal was only defensible if it was admitted to be a temporary measure. Had it been re- stricted to the financial year, under some gua- rantee that it would be balanced by a further measure dealing with the Board schools, it would have been well supported but if it came with- out such a guarantee in its present naked de- j formity, there were forces at work in the mass of the people which would be hostile to the per- manence of such a settlement. In J8 course of the debate, which was ad- journed at midnight, the Government proposals were condemned by several Liberal Unionist members; and one or two Conservative mem- bers also protested against the character of the scheme.

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 2ND. HOUSE OF LORDS. The House sat for a few minutes on Tuesday. Seven peers were selected to act on a Joint Committee on Statute Law Revision Bills and Consolidation Bills and, on the motion of the Duke of Norfolk, the Post-office Consolidation -Bill was read a first time. TUESDAY,'FEBRUARY 2ND. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Sir M. WHITE RIDLEY, answering Sir C. Diike, said his attention had been drawn to the strike of girls engaged in the textile trade at Belfast against the long lists of large fines re- cently placarded in the mills. It was hoped that the matter would be settled by mutual agree- ment; but if not, it might be necessary to have recourse to proceedings under the Truck Act of last session, which, for the first time, gave the workpeople full protection against all unfair and unreasonable fines. Mr. G. BALFOUR, replying to Mr. M'Hugh, said he had no means of exercising influence on the Irish landlords to enduce them, in conse- quence of the fall in agricultural values in Ireland, to give abatements of rent to their tenants. In reply to a further question, he said he had no option as to permitting the employment of the forces of the Crown in carrying out evic- tions in cases where abatements were refused, and where tenants were unable to enter the Court, in order to have their rents fixed. He added that during the past year, the number of evictions in Ireland had been fewer than in any year since 1877. The HOME SECRETARY informed Mr. Schwann that he had not yet come to any de- cision with regard to the case of J. Hall, who was sentenced at the Manchester Autumn Assi- zes to three years' imprisonment for the man- slaughter of his wife. Sir J. GORST, in replying to Mr. Yoxall, said he had seen, with very great regret, the statement that at the public elementary school of St. Andrew's, Willesden, two certificated mistresses and an assistant teacher had received notice of dismissal from the chairman of the managers of the school, because they declined to sign a memorandum of agreement, by the terms of which they would have been bound to be regular communicants and attendflnts at St. Andrew's Church: that increase of salary was withheld from a certificated assistant master, on the ground that he did not attend that par. ticular church; and that finally, he was dismis- sed, because he did not so attend. The Com- mittee- of Council, however, had no power to interfere. Sir J. KINLOCII asked for an assurance that an equivalent grant would be given to Scotland I in proportion to that proposed to be given to the English Voluntary schools. Sir M. HICKS-BEACH said the Government did not think that the system of equivalent grants was properly applicable under the pro- posed bill. If the bill should become law, no doubt fair aid would be given to primary edu- cation in Scotland, in such a manner as might be statable to its requirements. Mr. BRYCE asked on-what terms this aid would be calulated. Sir M. HICKS-BEACH said he imagined that any proposals of the kind could nob be intro- duced until it was seen what the result might be of the bill shortly to be introduced. Mr. BRODRICK, replying to Mr. W. J. Gal- loway, said the Hulme Barracks were, at pre- sent, occupied by infantry, who had been there since last autumn. No immediate change was in con templation. Mr. A. J. BALFOUR stated, in answer to Mr. Morton, that on Friday night, the business in Committee of Supply would be the considera- tion of the grant in aid in connection with the Egyptian expedition. Mr. RITCHIE, answering Mr. J. Lowther, said the letter written by Mr. G. Rowley, the local labour correspondent of the Board of Trade at Bfcthesda, to a Wejsh paper, in which he spoke of his career as a trade unionist, and attributed his selection as labour correspondent to the influence of several Welsh members, was an improper letter; and Mr. Rowley had been asked for an explanation. Mr. BALFOUR moved that the order for Committee on the aid grant to Voluntary schools should take precedence of the notices of motion and orders of the day. Mr. J. ELLIS and Mr. LABOUCHERE op- posed the motion and Mr. E. LAWRENCE, who occupied the first position, with a notice of motion on the subject of the provision of piers and harbours, protested strongly against the proposal to deprive members at the very begin- ning of a session of their right to ventilate grievances in which their constituents were interested. Sir W. HARCOURT joined in the protest, remarking that if this resolution were passed, consequences with reference to the Board schools of the country would take place which would exclude the House from considering the claims put forward on their behalf. That was the reason why there should be no hurry; and he protested against any attempt to force through the House a resolution of that conclu- sive character, without giving ample time to the country to know what was the policy of the Government in this respect, and to express an opinion upon it. Mr. BALFOUR said he dissented entirely from the proposition that there was no reason for proceeding promptly wiuh the bill: in the first place, because it was very important in he interests of Voluntary schools that the bill should become law at the earliest possible mo- ment and secondly, because if an inordinate time was occupied w:th the proposal to relieve Voluntary schools, it would be impossible for the Government to proceed with their other scheme for the relief of necessitous Board schools. After some further debate, he moved the clo- sure, which was carried by 259 votes to 143; and his resolution, on a further division, was carried by 283 votes to 123. The House, afterwards, went into Committee, and resumed he consideration of the resolution proposed by Mr. Balfour on Monday night. Mr. E. GRAY, concluding the speech he be- gan on Monday, expressed his disappointment that the proposal of the Government would not come into force at the end of the present finan- cial year. Sir W. HART DYKE admitted that the pro- blem before the Government had been made more acute by the events of last year. A feel- ing of bitterness was then created; and some- how, grave alarm was created in the ranks of the Opposition, lest the Government should, some day, attempt at one fell swoop to destroy the Board school system. As a supporter of Voluntary schools, he had never failed to recog- nise the great educational efforts of the Board schools: and he felt that his friends would never forward the cause of the Voluntary schools by attempting to disparage the work done by the Board schools. He looked upon the present proposal, however, as an honest endeavour to carrv out a pledge given not only in the coun- try, but to the House: and admitted that the Government could not refuse to deal with the necessitous Board schools at an early date. Sir H. H. FOWLER said that if Mr. Balfour would simply strike out the word Voluntary,' and substitute for it the word 'elementary,' then the whole question could be debated with- out his bill being altered. If the right hon. gentleman would not agree to that, he had no right to complain if the Opposition insisted upon debating the bill four or five nights. The SOLICITOR GENERAL, in reply, said the Government had every intention of helping the Board schools at as early a date as possible; and the method for carrying that out had been under consideration for some time. Sir A. ROLLIT, associating himself with some of his friends, in criticising the proposals of the Government, said those proposals recom- mended themselves least to liiyn- because they dealt differentially with Voluntary and Board schools. So far from redressing inequality, the proposals created a new and greater inequality. Mr. LLOYD-GEORGE subsequently pro- posed an amendment, restricting the grant to 'necessitous' Voluntary schools. Mr. LOUGH seconded the awendment, which, after brief speeches by Mr. ASQUITH, Mr. BALFOUR, and Sir W. HARCOURT, was defeated: and the closure of the general debate having been moved by Mr. Balfour, the Government resolution was carried by a majo- rity of 215. -<Q

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 3RD. T T 1,Sl -.9 HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. FAITHFULL BEGG moved the second reading of the Parliamentary Franchise (Ex- tension to Women) Bill. Mr. ATHERLEY JONES seconded, and said that what they sought to obtain was, a de- claration of the House for or against women's suffrage, leaving questions as to the scope and extent of qualifications to be dealt with, if the bill passed, in Committee. Mr RADCLIFFE COOKE moved the rejec- tion of the bill, on the ground that there was no demand for it, and that'the men, who made and maintained the State, ought to govern it. Mr. LABOUCHERE said that the vast majo- rity of women felt, and clearly recognised that they were not fit, and did not wish to govern. If the bill were passed, the logical outcome of it must be, that they would ultimately have to give the vote to every woman. Sir W. LAWSON and Professor JEBB hav- ing spoken in favour of the bill, Sir W. HARCOURT said he should not like to give a silent vote but he should confine his remarks to a single point, the numerical rela- tion between bhe two sexes. There were, in this country, 1,290,000 more women than men and this bill amounted, practically, to an appeal for the enfranchisement of the majority. It would be a very fundamental change in the constitution of the country to establish it upon an Amazonian basis, or a popular womanhood majority. Mr. COURTNEY having supported the bill, the closure was moved, and adopted by 214 votes to 170. The second reading of the bill was then car- ried by 228 votes to 157; and the House ad- journed. -D"I-

Lord Dynevor has been staying at Barford near Warwick, on a visit to his-son-in-law and. daughter, Mr. and Mrs. James Ranken.. j

DENBIGHSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL. The quarterly meeting of the Council was held at the Coun.ty Buildings, Wrexham, on Friday, when the following members were present:—Sir W. W. Wynne (in the chair), Mr. O. Isgoed Jones (vice-chairman), Messrs. J. W. Lumley, Thomas Gee, Evan Roberts, William Jones, P. E. Story, Wm. Thomas, R. E. Graesser, Thomas Ingham, A. Foulkes, Edward Hooson, Samuel Moss,W. E. Samuel, W. Trevor Parkins, C. K. Benson, Captain Griffith-Boscawen, J. Roberts (Plas Heaton Farm), T. A. Wynne Edwards, Simon Jones, J. R. Burton, Steele L. Roberts, W. G. Rigby, David Roberts, Henry Rawson Wil- liams, Thomas Morris, Carstairs Jones, Col. Mainwaring, F. E. Rooper, R. LT. V. Kyrke, B. Harrison, E. Lloyd Jones, W. Charles Hughes, Edwin Bellis, John Harrop, F. W. Soames, Henry Dennis, and Sir Robert Egerton, with the clerk (Mr. LI. Adams), and the other officials. ABSENT MEMBERS. Apologies were received from the follow- ing gentlemen:—Dr. J. R. Jenkins, Messrs. Richard Jones, R. M. Biddulph, W. G. Dodd, Hugh Holland, William Williams, J. H. Darby. James Sparrow, and W. D. W. Griffith. THE QUESTION OF INCREASING SALARIES. A COMPARISON BETWEEN WREXHAM AND DENBIGH DISTRICT. Mr. W. E. Samuel, in moving the adop- tion of the report of the Main Roads, Weights and Measures, and Diseases of Animals Act Committee for the Wrex- ham District, said that the Committee had decided to recommend to the Council that the salary of Mr. Noah Price as inspector of weights and measures be increased from £100 to S130 lper annum. No doubt many members present were of opinion that the two inspectors of weights and measures—Mr. Price for the Wrexham, and Mr. Clarke Jones for the Denbigh Dis- trict should receive equal salaries, but having regard to the work done by the two officers, this plan would be an unjust one. The amount of fees collected in the Denbigh District for a certain period came to £261, whereas in the Wrexham District for the same period the amount was £688, leaving a balance in favour of the Wrexham officer of £ 457. This conclusively proved that more work was done in the Wrexham District than in that of Denbigh. Mr. Price was a most efficient officer, and the committee hoped that the Council would see its way to give him a fair salary. Sir R. E. Egerton seconded the motion. Mr. Pryce E. Story said he rose to propose an amendment-- Mr. Lumley: I rise, sir, to a point of order. I should like to know whether the Finance Committee, sitting as such, have a right to deal with a question of salary, or whether, when dealing with such a question, they ought not to sit as a separate com- mittee and resolve themselves into a Salaries committee. The Chairman I do not quite see what this has to do with the adoption of the Main Roads and Weights and Measures Com- mittee's reports. Mr. Lumley: It naturally arises in con- nection with the proposed increase of salary. Such a recommendation must be submitted to this Council from the Salaries Committee before it can be entertained, and I should like to know whether the Finance Com mittee ought not to have sat as a Salaries Committee in considering the question? The Chairman: The Main Roads Com- mittee is the Salaries Committee. Mr. Story: No, it is the Finance Com- mittee. The Chairman: The Salaries Committee and the Finance Committee are therefore the same. Mr. Lumley: That is my point sir, and the Finance Committee being the Salaries Committee, it is a question whether, when dealing with a matter of salary the Finance Committe should sit as a Salaries Com- mittee, and not as a Finance Committee. The Chairman said he did not see that! anything could be gained by discussing this point. The same gentlemen formed both committees, and they took the business as placed on the agenda. Mr. Lumley: Very well sir, if that is your ruling. Mr. Story I rise again to move an amend- ment to the committee's report, and that is that this recommendation to increase the salary of the inspector be referred back for reconsideration. I object to the increase for want of justification. I submit there is no justification whatever for advancing this officer's salary. He was appointed to the office at a salary of £100 per annum, and since his appointment we have agreed to pay all his expenses, and he not only gets £25 for his ordinary expenses, but all his extra expenses are paid as well. These facts he does not put down in his applica- tion. It was also agreed that the officer should give the whole of his time to the dis charge of his duties, but I hear now that the ground upon which he bases his applica- tion is, that he has lately been outside the county stamping glass and earthenware. I cannot help thinking that it is a great mis- take on our part to allow our officers to go out of the county to do work in other coun- ties. These officers were appointed to do their work in Denbigshire, and in my opin- ion they ought not to be called upon to do work of any kind in the adjoining counties. If the manufacturers of those counties re- quire their glass to be stamped, they should bring it to the officer's office at Wrexham for the purpose. Only a few months ago, we had a similar application from this officer for an increase of salary, and although I do not want to damage his position in any way, yet, I think it is a great presumption on'his part to make these continuous appli- cations for an increase of salary. He was not the only man amongst the applicants, capable of doing the duties of his office, and if the post becomes vacant to-morrow, we will have scores of applications from persons willing to undertake the work for a salary of zcioo and their expenses paid, without pes- tering this Council to increase that amount as this officer does. I ask. the Council to reject this proposal; I ask the members for the Denbigh District to vote against it, and also those not present at the committee when it was decided to make this recom- mendation. Mr. John Roberts (Henllan), in seconding the amendment said Mr Samuel, in propo- sing the adoption of the report, gave them the fees received by the officer in the dis- charge of his duties, but took care not to mention the expenses incurred by him, which was a matter of great importance in connection with this question. In one quar- ter Mr. Price earned about £ 70 in fees, but his expenses for that time amounted to over £50, leaving a balance of X-io. For the same quarter, the inspector for the Denbigh Dis- trict earned X40 in fees, the expenses being £ 23| so that the difference in the actual u- receipts 1 was only X5. It had been said that the W exham inspector did more work than the otliaer for the Denbigh District, but if j the number of scales, &c., stamped in both ends u the county were compared,, they would fiuu that there was but a very trifling difference between the two districts. On these grounds, he (Mr. Roberts), could not vote in favour of the increase. Mr. Simon Jones in giving the reasons that led the committee to make the recom- mendation, claimed that he was as careful and economical as any member of the Council in dealing with the question of salary, but it was pointed out to him that there had been a considerable increase of work for the officer, and he thought it but reasonable to take the salary of the officer into account. Since Mr. Noah Price had been appointed, glass stamping had been added to his other duties, and that entailed a great deal of extra labour. Mr. John Roberts. What about the ex- penses in connection with this ? Mr. Simon Jones replied that when the stamping machine was purchased, it was not expected that the work would be so great, and the fees earned were considerable. One large glass dealer who sold glass in the county required stamping to be done, and it was more economical for the officer to go out of the county for the purpose, and to do the work were the glass stood. By doing this he earned £ 16 in addition (hear, hear). The increase of salary was based entirely on increase of work not. contemplated when the officer was appointed. Mr. Wynne Edwards said he did not think the County Council should call upon its officers to work too cheaply, at the same time he did not think that this officer should be paid more than was necessary. Within the last few weeks, the County Council of Carnarvon had advertised for an officer to perform the same duties as Mr. Price. The salary offered was Sloo per annum, and there were over 90 applicants for the office. And if the County Council of Denbigh parted wit"- the services of this officer, he had no doubt but that they would receive the same number of applications. He did not wish to say one word against the way Mr. Price did his work, but to raise his salary without doing the same with the in spector of the Denbigh District would be a great injustice. It would be remembered that the Council advertised for two inspec- tors, and the names of Mr. Clarke Jones and Mr. Noah Price i,, c'-e chosen. At the time Mr. Clarke Jones was qualified, but Mr. Price was not. For some time Mr. Clarke Jones was asked, to act as a locum tenens for Mr. Price, and if Mr. Jones had chosen to apply for the Wrexham District, he would no doubt have had it. Therefore, he did not think it right to increase the salary of Mr. Price, and not to give Mr.. Clarke Jones an equal advance. Moreover, he believed that all applications for advance of salaries should be made direct to the Salaries Com- mittee and not to the Main Roads Com- mittee for a certain end of the county (hear, hear). Mr. Rooper said a man should be paid according to the amount of work done by him, and the responsibility of his post. Mr. Price had a much more important district than that of Denbigh. Mr. Samuel Moss hoped that the Council would sanction the increase. The work of the officers should be taken into considera- tion when the salaries were under discus- sion. It was true the two officers were ap- pointed at an equal salary, but having re- gard to the increase of the work in the Wrexham District, he did not think that there should be any doubt but that the work of Mr. Price was much heavier than that of Mr. Clarke Jones for the Denbigh District. He was of the same opinion as Mr. Lumley on the other question, viz., that the Finance Committee should sit as a-Salaries Commit- tee when considering any question affecting the salaries of their officers. Mr. Thomas Gee expressed a hope that the Council would not grant the increase. In the first place he failed to see that the Denbigh end of the lounty had any oppor- tunity of considering this question in con- nection with the salary of their officer, and when they had two officers doing the same duties, any question affecting their salaries should be dealt with by the Committee, so that the whole matter, in all its aspects, should be considered, and considered also in connection with both ends of the county (hear, hear). He had not one, word to say against the way Mr. Price had discharged his duties. He had no doubt but that he was an admirable officer, at the same time, he did not think it right for him in making his application, to compare his salary to that paid to other officers. The question should be dealt with on its merits (hear, hear). Let the work speak for itself, but as there were two officers doing the same duties in the county, any question affecting their salaries should be referred to the Salaries Committee, because they would in that case, have an opportunity of weighing all the facts. With reference to Mr. Moss" argument, they had heard a great deal about the increase of population in the Wrexham end of the county, but he failed to see how this might be a reason for the increase of salaries. However, it seemed to him that the members for the Wrexham end of the county never took into consideration the amount of travel and travelling expenses incurred by the officer of the other end of the county. He felt sure that they might with justice place the extent of the Denbigh Dis- trict, and the inconvenience of travel against the increase of population and work in the Wrexham District. He would sup- port the amendment with a view of throw- ing the matter back to the Salaries Com- mittee, and he hoped the Council would accept it. With regard to the quescion of glass stamping, it had not yet been carried out in the Denbigh District, but if the work was commenced, no doubt Mr. Clarke Jones would be able to earn the same fees as Mr. Price. Sir Robert Egerton said that the Finance Committee was drawn from both ends of the county, and the subject had therefore been considered by gentlemen representing the two districts. It had been suggested by some speakers that the recommer, Cia, "ion emanated from gentlemen representing the Wrexham end only, but that was not the case. Mr. Lumley said he wished to ask Sir Robert Egerton for an explanation. Was the Council to understand that the applica- tion for an increase of salary emanated from Mr. Price himself, or whether the com- mittee suggested that he should make the application ? Sir Robert Egerton Might I explain- The Chairman: No, I do not think you should do so.. Mr. E. Lloyd Jones said the recommenda- tion of the committee was not arrived at unanimously, and he was strongly^ of opin- ion that this officer was well paid (hear, hear). If it was vacated by Mr. Price, they wouid have plenty of applicants, for the post and equally good ones to Mr. Price. Mr. Evan Roberts Sir Robert Egerton stated that the question was considered by members from both ends of the county at the Finance Committee, but ha found that only two gentlemen from the Denbigh Dis- trict were present on the occasion. Mr. Moss Why, may I ask ? Mr. Evan Roberts There was an Asylum Committee held the same day, and on that account the Denbigh end of the county was not fairly represented. Mr. Lumley: I should like to a,sk the clerk whether it is competent for any mem- I ber of this Council to vote on this question 1 ~— who is an interested party, and who Col." under the control of Mr. Price in connect with the stamping of weights and ^i,easit &c. (loud laughter). ,■ The Clerk Any member having a d'ect pecuniary interest in the matter is pre- cluded—— Mr. Lumley Hear, hear. The Clerk: But a member may have such an indirect interest that he ought not to be disqualified. Mr. Story: I call for open voting on the question. Mr. Moss I have had some experience in this Council, and I am not aware that we have up to the present, taken a secret vote on any question. Mr. Story: No one knows better than Mr. Moss what open voting means. A vote was then taken, when 25 voted in favour of the amendment, and 40 against. Mr. Story's amendment was therefore lost. THE CHAIRMAN AND MR. LUMLEY. m- A BREEZE. Some little time having elapsed before any member rose, The Chairman proceeded to put the motion for the adoption of fche report before the meet- ing, when Mr. John Roberts (Henllan) rose to propose an amendment. The Chairman (sternly): You are too late, sir. Mr. John Roberts: But I have an amend- ment. The Chairman Order order. You are too late, and you cannot move it Mr. Lumley I rise to a point of order, sir. I wish to know whether under standing order 34, a member is at liberty to discuss any amendment or report submitted for confirma- tion here. The Chairman: Not after the chairman had put the question, and plenty of time allowed before that. Mr. Lumley: By what standing order does the chairman rule that it is not competent for the council to discuss questions submitted here for its consideration from a committee? The Chairman By standing order 24. Colonel Mainwaring: The report now under consideration is a very long one, and I would suggest sir, that more time should be given to the members of the council to think out, and prepare their amendments. The Chairman I gave plenty of time, and if any member- Mr. Lumley I beg to ask sir The Chairman (warmly) Order, order. Mr. Lumley I challenge your ruling, sir. Several Members Chair, chair. Mr. Lumley I say again, that I challenge the chairman's ruling. If he is going to gag a discussion like this, I object to his ruling- Mr. Gee Hear, hear. Mr. Moss also said that more time should have been given by the chairman, and tha,t he should allow members to discuss it even after giving his ruling in the way he had done. The Chairman replied that he would on the present occasion withdraw his ruling (hear, hear)—but would in future strictly enforce it. Mr, John Roberts then called attention to the committee's recommendation with reference to Glantanat 1st Bridge. The District Sur- veyors had been requested to inspect the bridge, and the two reported to the same com- mittee. One estimated the cost ntE-90, whereas the other gave the amount at £450. The reports were very conflicting, and he should like to know first of all, whether anything could be done to avoid the expenditure of £1,000 recommended by the County Surveyor for the erection of a new bridge. Mr. Simon Jones said it was reported by both surveyors that the bridge was not worth repairing, and that a new bridge was urgently required there. The £90 was the estimate for the filling up of the pool wifch gravel placed in bags, and had nothing to do with the bridge itself. 6 Mr. Gee said the District Surveyor estimated the cost at f450, whereas the County Surveyor put it down at £ 90. Mr. Simon Jones No, no, that is not the case. Mr. Lumley: Mr. Gee is quite right. The reports of the two surveyors as to what is required agree in the main. But the County Surveyor who states that lie has, had great experience with regard to this bridge, only recommends the spending of £ 90. Several Members No, no. Mr. Lumley Pardon me. Let me finish my statement. The District Surveyor, after inspecting this bridge, suggests a different; treatment, and he escimates the cost at £ 450. The County Surveyor gives you an alternative scheme, and I should like to ask whether it was the great difference between the two estimates that caused all the trouble with regard to this matter. I support the amend- ment proposed by Mr. John Roberts, viz. timt the matter be referred back to the committee, and that they should appoint a subcommittee to go with the two surveyors, and to see for themselves whether the work can be done for 990, or whether a new bridge is really re- quired. I The Chairman I am afraid you are wander- ing, sir. Mr. Roberts did not propose any amendment, he merely asked for an explanation on the difference between the two estimates. Mr. Roberts I did mention my amendment and I have it now in my hand. The Chairman You must have written it afterwards then. You simply asked for an explanation. Mr. Roberts then formally moved that the portion of the report referring to Glantanat Bridge be referred back that a subcommittee be appointed to see the bridge, and to consider whether the suggestion of the surveyor with regard to the safety of the bridge cannot be carried out. After further discussion, the amendment was agreed to without a division. STEAM ROLLERS AND THEIR LICENSES. Mr. Evan Roberts said he noticed from the Wrexham surveyor's report that a Steam Roller, belonging to fche Great Western Rail- way Company had been used for some days in the district, for which no license had been taken out. He wished to know whether a Rteam roller was a locomotive under the Act, and if that was so. he would have to ask the clerk to apply to the company for the license fee.. The Chairman replied that a steam roller was a locomotive under the Act, bat he thought it would be unwise for the Council to stop the roads being rolled by these engines when there were no steam rollers within the county. Mr. Wynne Edwards said there were at least two steam rollers in the county, and if they licensed one, they should license the whole. Mr. Rooper said the Great Western roller was used entirely for the benefit of the County. Mr. Moss appealed to Mr. Roberts to with- draw his motion, which was done. The reports of the Main Roads Committee together with the other reports already enu- merated were then adopted, subject to the am- endments passed. MAIN ROADS COMMITTED OF THE DENBIGH DISTRICT. THE SWINE FEVEE ORDER. Mr. John Roberts proposed, and Mr. Lumley seconded the adoption of the report of the Main Roads Committee for the Denbigh Dis- trict, which also included the reports of the Weights and Measures, and the Contagious Diseases (Animals) Act Committees. Colonel Mainwaring called attention to the swine fever order now in force in the County, and said a great deal of complaints were made owing to this restriction. Only a few cases had been reported and those existed in, the eastern portion of the county only. He should like to ask the clerk whether it was possible to get the western division separated from the eastern for the purpose of this act. The clerk in reply read a letter he had received on the subject from the Board of