The Carmarthen Weekly Reporter

Premier and Mines Nationalisation GOVERNMENT WON'T ACCEPT. At a conference between the Premier and the Labour Leaders on the 9th inst., the ques-' tion of the Nationalisation of the Mines was discussed. Mr Smillie said that it could not be said that the matter had been sprung upon the nation. He recapitulated the history of the appointment of, and the proceedings at, 'the Royal Commission, and pointed out that all the members of the Commission wereof the opinion that it was not in the interests of that country that the minerals should any longer be held by private individuals- Hitherto the mines had been carried on more in the interests of dividends than for the benefit of the nation or of the workers. Mr Smillie went on to say that the safety of the workers should be the firs consideration, not dividends. Everyone connected in any way with the in- dustry knew very well that the present system could not continue', and that there must be some change. The miners claimed to have some voice in the conduct of the industry in which their investment was their lives, and if the Government agreed—as some members of the Government, he thought, did agree— that, there was something to be said for such a claim. Mr Smillie said he wanted the miners nationalised in order that by the full- est possible development on intelligent lines, with the engineering power and inventions we possessed, they might get the output creased and the price of coal lowered to the benefit of the public and other industries dependent upon coal. The owners were unnecessary. They did nothing towards the working of the mines. That was done by the mine managers, and if the owners were swept away tomorrow and the State substituted, the managers could carry on. Answering the Prime Minister, Mr Smillie said they would rather have the pre-war sys- tem of private ownership than the scheme of control recommended to the Government, even if the ministers had a share in the con- trol. Mr Smillie claimed that when Mr Dohar Law addressed the House of Commons on the subject of the Saiikey interirii report, "we held that if we went on with the Commission and got a. report in favour of natio,ii tion, you, were pledging yourself, and Mr Lloyd George was pledging himself, that you v.ould be prepared to carry it ou-G." Mr Bonar Law said lie certainly did not intend it. The Prime [Minister, in reply, said the sub- ject was as important and as difficult as any Government could be confronted with. He thought the deputation would admit that at best it was an experiment which, so far as he knew, had not been tried on any great scale in any part of the world.. It was also a great political issue, one that must be decided by the nation as a whole. It could not be decided by any part of the nation which did not con- stitute the majority. If the nation was con- vinced it was right and proper in the inte- rests of the people as a whole that the experi- ment should be tried, the nation has got a machine by which it could carry its will into effective execution. 0 The Government can only state clearly what their view is. If that is not acceptable to the nation, there are means by which the nation can, not merely carry out nationnlisa- tion, but carry the Government out, and that is a process which no one knows haws to con- duct more effectively than the gentlemen who are in front of me. It had been suggested that the Government had signed a. bond to carry out all the recom- mendations of the Royal Commission. He did not know of any Government in this or any other country that had ever taken up the position that they would refer a. great ques- tion of policy to a Commission, adbicate their own judgment, invite Parliament to abdicate its independent judgment, and adopt and put through a.ny recommendation made by the Commission upon a great question of policy. Most of those present belonged to a party which was looking forward to assuming the responsibility of Government. He should be veay surprised if, when they came to form a Government, they could adopt such an atti- tude towards the report of a Royal Commis- sion, The Government treated Mr Justice S Sankey's report on the question of wages as a decision upon a question of fact. But when you come to a gigantic political and economic issue, with endless ramifications involving schemes and plans of working, a.nd the organisation of an industry which is the basic industry of all the industries of the country, and say that you were referring to Mr Justice Sankev this question as if he were judge giving a verdict and delivering a judg- ment which the Government were bound to accept, which Parliament was bound to accept which the whole country was bound to accept, that is a, doctrine which occurs to me to be of so sweeping a character that I cannot imagine anyone with a sense of responsibility accept- • ing it. There were, said the Premier, only four members of the Commission who had never expressed an opinion one way or the other, and who had an open mind on the subject of nationalisation, and of these four, three were against and only one (Mr Justice Sankey) for it. There never was (he; proceeded) a. more in- opportune moment for pressing the claim for nationalisation. We had the most dangerous labour dispute with which we have ever been confronted a fortnight ago. It was not a dispute between capital and labour. It was not a dispute where private profits, were concerned. It was the kind of dispute which is referred to by M r Justice Sankey as one which will not happen if you nationalise the mines. It is a dispute between labour and the community. Mr Stuart Bunning That was not the view of the men. The Premier (continuing) said it was a dis- pute between the Government representing the community and o. Tr £ ul& Union represent- ing men who were working for the State. There they had all the conditions of national- isation. He did not want to create any bitterness. It was settled, and he could not tell them how thankful he was that it was settled without any bloodshed. But when you have got that in reference to the only argumen used by the one man who constituted the majority for nationalist ion, I y when you find his sole argument is answered i • grea tstrike against the State ortly tx wards, it makes it very difficult o ihe same weight to that argument a;, one would have dOl1 eV a few months ago. Dealing with the merits claimed for nation- alisation, the Premier said triat the saving of expense would not apply to wages, as one ex- periment in nationalisation had shown, and as to the increase of output he thought they would fend as a rule that output in municipal, and certainly in national, workshops, com- pared very unfavourably with output in pri- vate yards. Whatever anyone might think about nationalisation of businesses, he was not quite sure that miners afforded the best subject for experiment of that kind. It was a risky business.. Private owners could go on developing and could take risks, but if a State Department did it, they knew what would happen if there were a single failure. Their successes were never recorded, but their failures made goodcopy. He agreed with Mr Smillie that coal prices must be reduced. High price was a menace to industry, becaiise for the first time oil was cheaper than bunker coal, but -he did not see how nationalisation was going to reduce the price, especially nationalisation with effective control given to those who was conceraned in the industry. He was afraid it would nave exactly the opposite effect. As to the minerals they were a national property, and ought to be worked for the benefit of the nation as a whole. The Government proposod that the minerals should be nationalised. After reviewing the Government proposals to give the miners a voice in the control of the industry in as far as health and safety are concerned, Mr Lloyd George said he deeply regretted the answer given by Mr Smillie that if the Government decide, as they had decided, that they could not undertake State management of mines, lie would prefer the old ramshackle condition of competitive pits with barriers. lie (the speaker) thought labour was throwing away a great oppor- tunity of having an effective voice in the con- trol of its own industry, and he did not see how the Government scheme could stand ulti- mately in the way of nationalisation. If it was the definite and final. view of the Miners' Federation to object to unification, even when accompanied by representation on the Board of Directors, the Government would have to take their view into account,

MR HODGES AND TEST IN THREE MONTHS. A Labour meeting was held at the Albert Hall, London, on Saturday night, to demand peace with Russia and the nationalisation of land and mines. Mr Frank Hodges, secretary of the Miners' Federation, moved a resolution demanding in the interests of the community and the miners full acceptance of the necessity of public ownership of the- mines, and joint con- trol by the miners. The Prime Minister, said Mr Hodges, had r refused to carry out the recommendations oi the San key Commission, which he himself set up under pressure of a possible strike of miners. Under the recommendations of the Commission private ownership of mines stood condemned. If it was industrial pressure that brought the Coal Commission into being did it not become inevitable that industrial pressure must be brought to bear x to secure the acceptance of the recommendations of the Commission? On Thursday, the Government in refusing the demands of the Labour depu- tation at Downing street, sought to give a new lease of life under combinations, mono- polies, and trusts to the same system of pri- vate enterprise that had been condemned. The miners had looked forward to better conditions and a higher status in their indus- try, but now they were faced with a closed door. The mines and railways had reached the zenith of their prosperity under capital- ism and were worked at a deficit. The miners wanted to make the industry self-supporting, giving the greatest advantage to themselves consistent always with giving the community the greatest and cheapest supply of coal. Miners started cutting the coal at 2s 6d a ton, and the consumer paid £ 2 10s for it. "You my be amazed at the truoulence and fighting spirit of the miners," said Mr Hodges, "but they are amazed at you for your indifference in permitting such a thing. The miners have a strategic policy, and in the next three months you may have to put your loyalty to the test." Seconding the resolution, Mr Robert Williams declared that he could not be pro- voked to say revolutionary things as lie had become a Trade Unionist (laughter). "Do not let it be supposed that I was in Downing street sa a mere intermediary. I was there using all my efforts to line up the ranks and mass the battalions of the working classes. In the near future if and when the minera withdraw their labour, perhaps the "bloods" of Piccadilly, who trundled milk cans in Hyde Park, would go down to the mines 1f volunteer labour was used to break the miners. strike, then the terms of settlement must in- sist that the volunteers should continue !n that service. The resolution was carried. Mrs Phillpi Snowden proposed and Mr Ramsay Macdonald seconded a resolution de- manding the conclusion of peace with Russia. The resolution was carried. Mrs Annie Bessant also spoke.

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